POST 138 the fall from logic. PT. 2

Hey man I feel hungry, I'm starved and frazzled and thirsty.

Okidoke I know a place to eat, reasonable and clean.

(They go and order).  One has Plaice and Salad with a pint of draught Guinness, the other a large steak and fries with salad and a glass of wine, they share a desert of apple crumble and custard. Both have a coffee and retire to the lounge in the Pub Bar. 

Pub lounge

That's better I feel ready to freak out a bit now.  I challenge you and say is there something, something tangible even if it is with the mind in a picture, feeling or form?

If there is only you can find it.

Ah so there is a it then?

Only you will know.

Stop being obtuse. You say there is no you so there is nothing to find then.

You seemed to have answered yourself.

Come on be real, stop fanning around.  Is there a you or not and what is it ?

Well there is a virtual you built round programmes as before and this can be verified by 7 Billion others or you's on the planet. However if the collective has agreed this is reality with its many differing views, cultures, religions and la la la, then so be it.  I suppose you could call it relative reality. Then when eras change say from Roman Empire Caesar days till now with the feudal days, industrial revolution and the changing fads, customs and idioms, then yes there are identities, then what about all that fades and then dies, again the so called reality of the day becomes obsolete and deplete.  So where is your base line your security there, the flotsam and jetsam of the moving stream, the changing clouds.  The only constant is CHANGE(emphasised, any ' are sort of inflections of speech).  How do you hold onto change.  If you do, you freeze the moving stream and that becomes reality. Frozen frames and currents of a moving scenario. True and real if one is lost in it.  Not an absolute if one lives and senses the undercurrent of temporal and shifting sands.

The notion that the atom was the smallest particle in the universe fell with the discovery that the atom itself is made up of even smaller, subatomic elements. What was even more shocking was the revelation that these subatomic particles emit various “strange energies.”(0) Proponents would argue that the findings within quantum physics only apply and are significant at the subatomic level, but to those I say, are we not all existing at the subatomic level? When we observe ourselves and our physical environment at the smallest level, are we not made up of atoms? Are we not made up of subatomic particles? Are we not what we observe?

At the turn of the ninetieth century, physicists started to explore the relationship between energy and the structure of matter. In doing so, the belief that a physical, Newtonian material universe that was at the very heart of scientific knowing was dropped, and the realization that matter is nothing but an illusion replaced it. Scientists began to recognize that everything in the Universe is made out of energy.

Quantum physicists discovered that physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature. Therefore, if we really want to observe ourselves and find out what we are, we are really beings of energy and vibration, radiating our own unique energy signature -this is fact and is what quantum physics has shown us time and time again. We are much more than what we perceive ourselves to be, and it’s time we begin to see ourselves in that light. If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope, you would see a small, invisible tornado like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void.(0) The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

It’s quite the conundrum, isn’t it? Our experience tells us that our reality is made up of physical material things, and that our world is an independently existing objective one. Again, what quantum mechanics reveals is that there is no true “physicality” in the universe, that atoms are made of focused vorticies of energy-miniature tornadoes that are constantly popping into and out of existence.  The revelation that the universe is not an assembly of physical parts, suggested by Newtonian physics, and instead comes from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves stems from the work of Albert Einstein, Max Planck, and Werner Heisenberg, among others. (0)

(Courtesy 

The Illusion Of Matter: Our Physical Reality Isn’t Really Physical At All

December 5, 2013 by Arjun Walia. 74 Comments.

- See more at: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/05/the-illusion-of-matter-our-physical-material-world-isnt-really-physical-at-all/#sthash.vcueovlm.dpuf

The above speaker refers to the above article.
So based on the above purely from physics we see our identity the you,  you refer too is 'as of the last paragraph above, our problems and insecurity stems from trying to  make concrete, solidify so we can plant our feet on it and say.  This is stable, firm, safe. Yet even Earthly time will crumble concrete and the huge stars'. 

So how can I live with almost everyone saying this is real, everlasting?

Courtesy www.gad.net

I will be the odd one out, I will find it awkward.

Just enjoy the illusion, do not try to become addicted. Like a person in the desert and the winds keep changing the dunes, constant adjustments and not trying to deal with the dunes as if they were fixed. The fun of riding the waves of the surf sands if you like.  

So I try to be a surfer, to ride the storms and to see change as security, wow this seems a bit risky.

You still want answers and certainty.  If you try, you start a discipline, a plan, making up a theory some sort of mind game. It has to come to you as a revelation, a real moment when you see the rope that binds you to the concept. Then one is free in the mind and then there is something else.  Now you are going to ask 'so there is something'.  My reply, maybe, you can only know this.

Courtesy to the above and this to Google Images and an unclear sponsor . It maybe www.gad.net again.

So are you saying that any identity is temporary?  That any attempt to define is merely a label which in time fades and has lost its meaning, and eventually all Life is like this?

Yes.

Well at least we agree on something.  How then does one obtain or get compassion, care, and not say 'all is an illusion, temporary, who cares, after all there is nothing at the end of it all, I can steal, rape, pillage, no karma, no retribution its all atoms and non corporeal'?

Through clinging to that which is seen as solid, bringing pleasure and safety and addiction or fixed attitude, a habit is formed, and if this thing, pursuit or whatever is taken away, it can bring suffering a kind of withdrawal syndrome, pain, feeling less, deprived, and some search endlessly for more, more sometimes in vain and they get hinkey, strange, maniacal and the like.   To those who can enjoy, let go and realise that fulfilment does not come from that which has decaying propensities, then the pain of withdrawal does not apply. There is a natural compassion when addiction and fear have gone. At first the pangs of withdrawal bring pain and suffering and then the joy through the burden -less existence brings serenity and peace. 
(Pause to order bottles of water)
So by experience one finds that an inner peace prevails, that the mind enjoys being free of want and desire.  Then a compassion grows as one sees the struggle, the wars, the bitterness over property, money, possessions, territory, an example the battle over disputed wills and that kind of thing.  Some awaken when the futility of accumulation, hoarding and its resulting safety mechanisms to ensure a supply and safety through possessions.  Constant guarding and insuring, defending and regression it can breed. Selfishness and arrogance and a disregard for anything as long as one's wants, which may have become addictions are satisfied.  To some there is no limit or moral compass to their hunger for their desires. In the end these desires maybe their downfall. 


Supposing as some do they like war, get off on cruelty and seem to thrive on it, love their addictions and get away with it, what then? Do you feel it is right or wrong, moral or immoral?

There are some cultures where all you say is acceptable, to kill for their bible, call those heathens who are not religious and so on. There are always opposites to the name, culture, label, as long as one labels there is the other side of the label.  So a lot of morals are derived from the era and culture, for example beheading in the French Revolution, hung drawn and quartered in the UK.  So this is acceptable in the culture and era one lived and not anywhere else outside that culture.  So morals are on a sliding scale, they are definite's, although we piously like to, think so.
Now let us go to where I take my outlook. At present whether I am virtual or not, and I believe we are all virtual, either by clone human hand or the Cosmic hand.  Taking the Cosmic hand as my culture and the Earth where I live, even temporarily, Nature provides my sustenance  and for all of Its inhabitants, so called humans or otherwise.  It is by co operation and ecological intelligence that food, shelter and provisions are provided. Just by common sense alone it would be prudent and wise to go along and co operate in this process.  You could say the elite maybe able to exterminate many and still have nature supply them, they can hoard and enslave. 

Courtesy. www.themistsof avalon.net

I feel there is an intelligence in Nature and it will backfire if one breaks the chain of supply and demand of husbandry and care. These are the algorithms set for this age and culture and I feel if one rids oneself of hoarding, malice, maiming and torture, one becomes empty of insanity and harming nature or others, then a great joy fills one.  True there maybe those who get the same from the opposite, however, nature which is the prevalent set of sustenance provider will eventually collapse and then the GMO and those kind bring in their laws and algorithms, until then my feel is for Nature and the Cosmic Intelligence behind it.  

Got you. So there is something behind it all.

Yes, however, it can be human hand made which you can identify by scientists in laboratories, true when you are in a computer you would not be able to identify them and say you created me and I know and see you, like the bodies genetically engineered in the film Avatar.
However when you witness the Earth, the stars, Nature and its glory, you see the handiwork, you see the cup made by the potter, not the creator, you do not see the 'mind' of the creator.  The story of the disciple coming to master with a troubled mind. The Master says cut out your mind, or show me your mind and I cut out the offending bit.  So if you can see it, hold it, hang onto it, you see the outcome not the cause.  To know the invisible is impossible, to feel it it might be so, to let go and enjoy the natural world and its ebb and flow, let it entertain you with its magic, I do not know how you arose or whither you go.  Death is a certainty, so whether you cling vainly to certainty and the cure or formulae for immortality in a body, possibly by virtual manipulation in a computerised version of yourself or you or take your chance with death and whatever ensues, is your choice.  

I still think and feel there is something that I can comprehend and say, this is God, I know how the big bang arose and science will day find it.

Courtesy www.icthus.info

Things like CERN will find it.

OK so if we go back to 'the illusion of matter I pulled out to show you', it will only be based on a theory.(article in small print above).

So is your Universe.

I agree at present this is the consensus that the Universe exists as planets, stars, us, atoms, particles and the rest, that there maybe intelligence in it or not, and accident or a plan by some intelligence. Until we get an alternative to nature as suggested by the chap who Posted his Blogs 135 and 136 Specials in www.geoffreed.com you showed me and the GMO chaps then I stick with the past, the witness into the reality of emptiness which brings its own experience and perhaps confirmation.

Ah so we are back to 'there is an experience which you denied' and which implied to me a dead sterile world.

Yes there is an experience, however, it is indescribable, it is awe and yet not. You have to experience it for yourself.  If you could put a label on it, it would merely be back in the defined and limited to words. Then the awe and magic is strained out of it.

So you are saying like Jesus it is beyond human understanding?

If there is a God, a Divine energy or intelligence and it is Eternal, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent then it would be outside description and be in the realm of intuitive spontaneous comprehension'

Well I cannot answer that.

Nor can I.

(with that they left the pub lounge, took to their horses and went back to the home of one of the speakers, which is a chalet in a place at the top of a mountain, there around a cosy log fire they sat in silence, sipping their teas and wine, long into the night and numerous issues came up, and perhaps we may be privy to some of them).

Courtesy of skimountainsolutions.